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Post by stanleyqbrick on Nov 4, 2004 13:19:29 GMT 1
Does anyone have any cool live mogwai bootlegs they fancy swapping?! I've got some awesome recordings on minidisc. Email me if you are interested. I'm not selling them- only swaps. Boo-ya!
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Post by AtlasLadder on Nov 4, 2004 16:46:35 GMT 1
What minidisc recordings do you have?
If you have anything of interest to me I might be up for a trade. I have a somewhat large collection.
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Post by stanleyqbrick on Nov 4, 2004 18:21:40 GMT 1
From this year i have Nottingham Rock City Last year Manchester Academy, leeds cockpit & glastonbury. It's all good :-)
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Post by Jack.GG on Nov 4, 2004 23:08:05 GMT 1
I think lots of people would be grateful if you could find a way to get your recordings on www.archive.org
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Post by Rob on Nov 11, 2004 0:29:18 GMT 1
From this year i have Nottingham Rock City Last year Manchester Academy, leeds cockpit & glastonbury. It's all good :-) Wow, you taped all three shows I did (not Leeds). Always good to heard second sources, especially as my Glasto is a piece of shit and Manchester is incomplete (damn trains!). I shall be uploading to the archive when I get digital transfers done of the other two, which will be soon, ish.
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Post by rob strong on Nov 12, 2004 13:47:08 GMT 1
I think lots of people would be grateful if you could find a way to get your recordings on www.archive.orgthere seems to be somewhat of a backlash against this going on at the moment - the general argument being 'I'm going to the effort of buying gear, learning how to use it, making good/great live recordings, then having some idiot upload an nth generation crappy copy of my recording without asking me. So I'm not going to trade my recordings out at all'
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Post by iain egg on Nov 12, 2004 15:14:43 GMT 1
there seems to be somewhat of a backlash against this going on at the moment - the general argument being 'I'm going to the effort of buying gear, learning how to use it, making good/great live recordings, then having some idiot upload an nth generation crappy copy of my recording without asking me. So I'm not going to trade my recordings out at all' i must admit i think that ownership of bottlegs is a very dodgy area. just because someone has recorded a live show does it make it theirs to trade? i would say that it is the artist only who is the 'owner' not the recorder. is it better for someone to share what they have and allow people to get it for free rather than it not being available at all? not my opinion as they say, but just another side to the argument... is it really up to someone to ask the recorder of a show? often it may not be known. if people are trading in loss-less in particular it is very easy for many generations down the line to get traded at top quality but not knowing who recorded it to start with!
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Post by rob strong on Nov 12, 2004 18:53:35 GMT 1
i must admit i think that ownership of bootlegs is a very dodgy area. just because someone has recorded a live show does it make it theirs to trade? Live recording is a grey area. Most bands seem happy enough for people to do it, provided the end results are used sensibly and not for profit. The problem with online trading is a microcosm of Western society as a whole (hah) - a few people doing the donkey work and a lot of people freeloading (or downloading). I don't trade online, and (as far as I'm aware) nor do any of my regular trades. CDrs and padded mailers are the future.
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Post by idiamin on Nov 13, 2004 22:23:09 GMT 1
This board has been a little stale lately - perhaps a lack of new downloads? Maybe a little flame action will liven things up.
Tapers are geeks, man. I'm a geek too. I do stuff that has no useful purpose at all just because I want to.
You people will keep tapings shows no matter what because you do it for yourselves. There's nothing wrong with that.
Rob, you're the f*cking bomb on Mogwai, really, but dude, what would this "backlash" entail. Nobody can listen to your stuff now and after the "backlash", um, nobody can listen to your stuff.
So, keep it already. Why all the bluster? What do you think is going to happen if you "hold the line" or whatever it is you're doing?
WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE FOR THE REST OF US TO DO FOR YOU, SIR?
There's two reasons shows become common on the internet:
1. A lot of tapers record stuff for themselves and want to share the music with as many people as possible. BTW, the rest of us slobs f*cking love you guys! 2. Shows that are really good get out. They show up in a bin at the dirty, semi-legal store across from campus. The get vined to some other geek with too much bandwidth, etc. etc..
Whatever it is that you're hoarding obviously falls into neither category.
Rob, if you want your stuff to be heard, share it. If you want only first generations out there, post them. If your stuff is better than what is already on archive.org then prove it to us. If you want something in return for your recording effort other than your own pleasure and the love of your fellow fans, you're out of luck, my friend.
Live shows are freeware. How much do you think freeware would get used if every freeware programmer adopted a policy of requiring a program of equal value in exchange for his program?
And the programmers actually write the code!
Which leads us to your comments on donkeys and freeloading: How would you apply that logic comparing yourself to say, the actual band?
Still think you're the donkey, man?
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Post by Chrille on Nov 14, 2004 13:24:16 GMT 1
i don't speak for rob but idiamin, your post is too harsh. if you want to start a flame discussion you better go somewhere else. okay? if you start once again i'll lock this thread. thanks.
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Post by distance on Nov 14, 2004 16:54:07 GMT 1
ok, i'll make a few points here as one that has taped a good number of shows and as one that has invested thousands of dollars in recording equipment and has travelled thousands of miles for shows before.
re: archive.org. it's a bit different when a band allows taping and allows their recordings to be archived on archive.org. i am much more inclined to upload my recording on archive.org where the information about the show can be properly archived and also it will always be available there in a lossless format. it is still up to the taper whether or not they decide they want to upload their recording there. i'm much more inclined to trade out or make available my recordings of a band that actually allows taping than one that doesn't.
as far as a grey area. if the band allows it to be done, there's no grey area. you're allowed to record it and you're allowed to have it. if you don't sell it, you're not breaking any kind of agreement that allowed you to make it.
re: shows ending up sold -- this happens, yes, but i really don't think there's going to be a huge market for mogwai shows at a random record store. somewhat of a market on ebay, sure, but probably not at some random store.
in general re: taping. i didn't buy my gear and do all of my travelling to benefit others. i did it so that i could have copies of the shows i went to because i realized long ago that you can't rely on someone else for this kind of stuff. that being said, that doesn't mean that i don't/would never make anything i've recorded available, i just feel that it's at my discression what to make available. there are a lot of people that feel that if you tape you are obligated to make the music available. some people feel they are OWED a copy of a show if they attended it (or just want it) and a recording exists. the whole mindset of people has changed in the past several years (in general) where people want something for nothing and by putting forth minimal effort. it used to be mp3s, but the same mindset is true in the lossless community in terms of bittorrent and STG and such. these days if i trade (which i really don't do that much), i am more inclined to trade with other people that tape -- other people that have put forth the efforts i have.
people don't know to complain about something if they don't know it exists.
the word 'hoarder' has no affect on me. if someone wants a show, why didn't they record it themselves? i am a firm believer in the fact that the only way to make sure that a show is recorded is to do it yourself. if anyone wants to make some sort of argument where 'not everyone can afford to do it', i'll be happy to address points on that, as i believe in most cases if someone is willing to make a sacrifice, they could afford recording equipment (you know, maybe smoking or drinking less or something?). i know i've certainly put myself out in a lot of areas in order to own the gear i own. you really don't get something for nothing.
it still comes down to the haves vs the have nots. tapers and downloaders. people who don't tape always complain about not having things or suggest that a taper SHOULD share things, but these people haven't either gone through the efforts to sneak equipment into shows/set up without getting caught/get a good location/deal with an often impolite crowd OR (in other cases) lug around a bunch of gear/argue with venue security/set up your gear on the floor/spend more time protecting your equipment from drunken idiots in the crowd than watching the show who seem to have no issues whatsoever with knocking your mic stand over.
all that being said, i do intend to upload at least my latest recordings to archive.org... at some point. i just haven't had the time/motivation to get around to it. they're still 48khz files (from syncing them to video for the dvds -- which also aren't finished), so they're not exactly ready at this point.
wednesday i leave to go tape a show that is 1000 miles away (each way).
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Post by rob strong on Nov 14, 2004 18:55:09 GMT 1
what would this "backlash" entail. Tapers who were previously willing to trade out their recordings being much more reticent about doing so, or not doing so at all. [quote author=idiamin link=board=general&thread=1099570769&start=8#0 date=1100380989] If you want something in return for your recording effort other than your own pleasure and the love of your fellow fans, you're out of luck, my friend. [/quote] I love pleasuring myself. [quote author=idiamin link=board=general&thread=1099570769&start=8#0 date=1100380989] How would you apply that logic comparing yourself to say, the actual band?[/quote] Not even in the same league.
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Post by distance on Nov 14, 2004 20:01:16 GMT 1
Live shows are freeware. How much do you think freeware would get used if every freeware programmer adopted a policy of requiring a program of equal value in exchange for his program? i really don't think that's a good analogy. a freeware program is often a useful utility that someone saw fit to make to make some sort of task easier or fun or to fill a hole. in all honesty, live recordings are just fluff. no one NEEDS them. the concept of trading is a win-win situation for those parties involved. if you look at a trade in general without looking at what could happen afterwards, the person that has/recorded a show, gives a copy of their show in exchange for a copy of another show that the other person has/recorded. both parties win. relationships can be built on this to where more trading/connections can be made. today people just seem to have the mindset that they should be able to get things without putting forth any effort. while the internet makes things easier, i think that people take that for granted and become too demanding. i honestly prefer these days to trade/share amongst a circle of friends/acquaintances i've come to know over the years, the majority of whom also tape.
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Post by distance on Nov 14, 2004 20:05:11 GMT 1
Tapers who were previously willing to trade out their recordings being much more reticent about doing so, or not doing so at all. regarding the backlash, i think there's a lot more backlash against STG/torrents than there is against archive.org. i personally don't think i've encountered anyone that's had a problem with archive.org.
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Post by Rob on Nov 17, 2004 10:04:16 GMT 1
I was gonna post in this again, but now distance has said absolutely everything I'd have thought of putting in almost the exact wording I'd have used. So um yeh, instead I shall impart two small pieces of good news. 1) I finally emailed the guy who will be transferring my Oct/March tapes the other night with a view to getting them in the post to him as soon as possible. 2) I have a job interview today. If it goes well then within a few months I may be able to treat myself to some better mics
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