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Post by dylandavid on Oct 12, 2006 18:00:24 GMT 1
the most awful, overused effect around... makes me cringe and mutter 'cheeseball' every time i hear it used... can't think of anyone - bar maybe throbbing gristle - who've used it to decent effect...
discuss?
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Post by rockactionrecords on Oct 12, 2006 18:19:55 GMT 1
Firstly, I think to call me a twat because I use a vocoder is a little harsh. I am a loving person who enjoys the company of other people and I am even considering giving 10 pounds a month to Amnesty International. I like animals, I don't think George Bush is a very nice man and I feel terrible when I see bad news on television. But I use a vocoder so I must be a twat.
Think about this then.....every (melodic) instrument from the word go has been made to emulate the human voice. From the word go. Check your music history books. Here comes an instrument (not an effect as you falsely claim....it is a standalone instrument like a guitar or a piano) which sounds very similar to a human voice and there you go off on one about it being overused. Aren't guitars overused then? Or Basses? You didn't think this one through. What you meant to say instead was that you don't like vocoders but you like Throbbing Gristle. But you were a twat about it. And wrong to boot. I bid you good day fine sir, we ride at dawn!
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Post by Chrille on Oct 12, 2006 18:26:38 GMT 1
the opinions expressed by dylandavid doesn't represent the regular members of this forum. i tried to move this thread to the general chat section so it had nothing to do with mogwai or barry burns.
sincerely,
christian.
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Post by dylandavid on Oct 12, 2006 20:00:22 GMT 1
 Firstly, I think to call me a twat because I use a vocoder is a little harsh. I am a loving person who enjoys the company of other people and I am even considering giving 10 pounds a month to Amnesty International. I like animals, I don't think George Bush is a very nice man and I feel terrible when I see bad news on television. But I use a vocoder so I must be a twat. thank you for taking the bait... nice people can't be twats, eh? Think about this then.....every (melodic) instrument from the word go has been made to emulate the human voice. From the word go. Check your music history books. Here comes an instrument (not an effect as you falsely claim....it is a standalone instrument like a guitar or a piano) which sounds very similar to a human voice and there you go off on one about it being overused. Aren't guitars overused then? Or Basses? You didn't think this one through. What you meant to say instead was that you don't like vocoders but you like Throbbing Gristle. But you were a twat about it. And wrong to boot. I bid you good day fine sir, we ride at dawn! bring it on, mr. logic... every instrument made to emulate the human voice?? you read it in your history books, so it must be true i figure... no, i don't like vocoders. i don't care if they are a standalone instrument or an effect, it's just sooooo so rare that they sound anything other than tired out crap... and using them nowadays, especially post-cher fiasco, is just critically negligent... pistols at dawn?
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Post by stuart on Oct 12, 2006 20:02:27 GMT 1
I love vocoder. I love Radioactivity by Kraftwerk, Future World by Trans Am, The Perfect Beat by Africa Mambata, Space Invaders Are Smoking Grass by I.F. and Don't Stop Moving by S Club 7. These are brilliant songs all augmented by the Vocoder. Anyone who disagrees is a half eaten fanny pad. Maybe we should start up the q and a and put these fuds in check. Barry?
plasmatron
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Post by stuart on Oct 12, 2006 20:06:41 GMT 1
Cher doesn't use a vocoder. Its actually auto tune which is a plug in for pro-tools. Vocoder as in the instrument invented by Homer Dudley in 1928 and eventually mass manufactured by Korg is timeless. Oh Superman by Laurie Anderson, theres another belter.
ps Arguing with Barry about music isn't wise. He knows about it.
plasmatron
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Post by dylandavid on Oct 12, 2006 20:08:05 GMT 1
the opinions expressed by dylandavid doesn't represent the regular members of this forum. i tried to move this thread to the general chat section so it had nothing to do with mogwai or barry burns. sincerely, christian. thanks christian - that's kind of you not to exercise your powers of censorship... i will toe the party line from now on and be sure not to upset the boat... honestly, sorry if my language or tone was too extreme for this board (i'm new here - though been browsing for ages - plus i guess my personality is a little like that, though v. tongue in cheek)... whilst i am a big mogwai fan, i do actuallyfind the vocodered bits are really lame and a huge turn-off (as lame as all those cod instrumental 'post-rock' or industrial bands that use film dialogue, etc. instead of vocals)... so i thought i'd post and see if i was alone in feeling like that... |
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Post by stuart on Oct 12, 2006 20:25:50 GMT 1
Thats fair enough but saying that anyone using one is a "twat" is a bit snide. Why didn't you just say you didn't like the sound? What happened to civility in this day and age?
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autorock
dee dee ramone
i'm no here
Posts: 61
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Post by autorock on Oct 12, 2006 20:49:19 GMT 1
whilst i am a big mogwai fan, i do actuallyfind the vocodered bits are really lame and a huge turn-off (as lame as all those cod instrumental 'post-rock' or industrial bands that use film dialogue, etc. instead of vocals)... so i thought i'd post and see if i was alone in feeling like that... i think i'd go with you on this one (except for the "twat" bit) it is probably the vocoder which took me such a long time to get into happy song for happy people. i dont think it brings anything interesting to mogwai's music. |
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Post by noise is a friend on Oct 12, 2006 23:23:00 GMT 1
I find nothing wrong with a bit of manipulated vocal. Even though I've heard it live without the vocoder, I much prefer "Hunted By A Freak" with it.
See also the fabulous effects on Billy MacKenzie's voice on The Associates' "Skipping" (from the essential "Sulk" album). Then there are the Gibbytronics on numerous Butthole Surfers albums, particularly "Locust Abortion Techncian" and "Hairway To Steven".
Neil Young's "Trans" is a bit of a dud, though.
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Post by ramscavsweather on Oct 13, 2006 0:21:32 GMT 1
i'm on the other end of the spectrum from you dylandavid...i find the use of a vocoder quite interesting...
regarding mogwai specifically, the bit at the beginning of 2 rights make 1 wrong when played live...before the drums enter...is fantastic...the combination of barry's vocoded vocals over top of stuart's 'bouncy-sounding' riff is pure beauty and gets me every time.
everyone is entitled to their opinion though i suppose.
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Post by theeddie on Oct 13, 2006 3:18:51 GMT 1
The best idea in this thread is the mention of bringing back the Q+A.. come on Stuart/Barry, you fuckers!
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Post by rob strong on Oct 13, 2006 8:49:14 GMT 1
i guess my personality is a little like that, though v. tongue in cheek if your tongue is already in your cheek, maybe you could bite it for a couple of seconds to give you some thinking time before posting? Feel free to make your point, but a degree of self-editing would be useful please. I like the vocoders. I'd wholeheartedly agree with the post about 2 Rights. |
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Post by willard on Oct 13, 2006 12:24:44 GMT 1
chuckle...
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Post by rockactionrecords on Oct 13, 2006 16:52:16 GMT 1
 Ah, but I suppose this is the reason we stopped the q and a. Too many people were just being a bit silly. I think I was a bit silly bothering to comment on this. It gets slightly infuriating. (By the way, that whole "glad you took the bait" rubbish is a lie. You totally never expected anyone to reply from the band so don't pretend you're some sort of professional reaction getter.....pah!) Anyway, nuff said. Vovcoders are amazing, even if you're a twat.
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Post by only on Oct 13, 2006 21:16:32 GMT 1
Daylandavid - At the end of the day, it's a matter of personal opinion. You don't like the vocoder because one fell on your head as a child, fine. Stuart/Barry/Mogwai don't need to explain their decisions to you, especially when you aren't even putting it to 'em seriously. If you want us to "discuss", then you'll have to do more than call people cheeseballs and twats if they use vocoders. I think 'I Chose Horses' is the only Beast track that uses one. So you can't say they overuse the effect. For fuck's sake, Mogwai make even BANJOS sound cool  |
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Post by Chrille on Oct 13, 2006 23:09:22 GMT 1
I think 'I Chose Horses' is the only Beast track that uses one. So you can't say they overuse the effect. they use it on 'acid food' as well. |
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Post by Ryan on Oct 14, 2006 0:39:11 GMT 1
Some of my favourite Mogwai songs are the ones heavily featuring the mangled vocoder.
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Post by Mr. Beast on Oct 14, 2006 2:49:23 GMT 1
i think vocoders add to the songs a very interesting layer, when they are used proper.
i like it in gwais songs.
i believe your problem dylandavid is that you hear it as distorted vocals, but its like another instrument.
and as mentioned, everyone is free to do what he wants...
vocoderock on!
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Post by killallhippies on Oct 14, 2006 8:03:01 GMT 1
I'd say i'm somewhere in the middle. the vocoder for the most part sounds alright in Mogwai's songs, but sometimes, yes, i do find it to be a bit cheesy.
on a side note, for a non-singer-type vocalist, i think Barry has one of the greatest voices in rock.
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milk
elvis ramone
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Post by milk on Oct 14, 2006 8:52:49 GMT 1
i'm not a fan of vocoder either... for me, those parts are the closest i come to being turned off in kogwai songs...
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Post by Ryan on Oct 14, 2006 16:37:26 GMT 1
Not to slight Mr. Burns, but you're not really hearing the actual sound of his voice during those parts at all. Neither pitch nor timbre.
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Post by killallhippies on Oct 14, 2006 18:07:46 GMT 1
yea i realize that. i think thats why i like it so much. its not overwhelmingly intrusive to the music, it blends right in perfectly. and most importantly it doesnt sound annoying. almost calming in a way
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Post by James Smith on Oct 14, 2006 18:47:31 GMT 1
The vocoder can sound amazing or cheesy, depending on its use. In my opinion, when it has been used in disco, techno, or any number of dance music styles, it sounds cheesy. But that type of music is all cheesy to me. But when used in the right context (Pink Floyd's Animals comes to mind) it is amazing. I think Mogwai use it effectively and it doesn't seem out of place. To me it is just another layer of the music.
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Post by distance on Oct 15, 2006 2:05:33 GMT 1
SCOTTISH VOCODER ARMY ..?
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Post by friendofnight21 on Oct 20, 2006 2:51:41 GMT 1
i for one am very influenced by mogwai with the vocoder. The main reason I got a vocoder was because of seeing them in Detroit and hearing Hunted by a Freak. Basically my band's whole style of playing music completely changed after hearing Mogwai. So I say thanks to Barry for changing my whole perspective on creating music today.
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Post by distance on Oct 22, 2006 18:59:59 GMT 1
i don't mind the vocoders at all. i feel like they can be over-done and make things seem cheesey, but i don't really feel like that's being done here.
if/when i ever start making music (which i hope to stop being a slacker and do someday, even if i fail at it), i definitely won't be singing --- though i doubt i'd use a vocoder.
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Ah, but I suppose this is the reason we stopped the q and a. Too many people were just being a bit silly. I think I was a bit silly bothering to comment on this. It gets slightly infuriating. (By the way, that whole "glad you took the bait" rubbish is a lie. You totally never expected anyone to reply from the band so don't pretend you're some sort of professional reaction getter.....pah!) Anyway, nuff said. Vovcoders are amazing, even if you're a twat.
